Interview with Mr. Maksym Subkh, Special Representative of Ukraine for the Middle East and Africa

Tunisie Numérique conducted an interview with Mr. Maxym Subkh, the Special Representative of Ukraine for the Middle East and Africa, currently on a tour in Tunisia, Libya, and Algeria. Below are the details of the interview.

1. You are currently on a tour in Tunisia, Libya, and Algeria. What can you tell us about the background and the stakes of this trip?

I am very happy to be in Tunisia. This is my first visit to this beautiful friendly country. You know that I previously held the position of Ukraine’s ambassador to Algeria and have always been close geographically and spiritually to Tunisia. We, of course, followed all the news coming from Tunisia. Today, we are here to support and strengthen the bilateral relations between our two countries, especially since our peoples share deep and rooted relations in many areas, particularly the human domain. There are many mixed families and many students who studied in Ukraine and became important figures in their communities. Of course, this was confirmed during the meeting with His Excellency the Tunisian Minister of Foreign Affairs, as the perspectives are vast and the opportunities numerous to continue and advance in deepening and diversifying these relations in various fields.

2. President Volodymyr Zelensky met with his American counterpart Donald Trump in Paris on December 7, 2024. It is known that the Republican will impose on Russia the end of the war. What is Ukraine willing to accept for a ceasefire?

Thank you for this question, which is indeed important and timely, as we will soon witness a change in the American political landscape with the arrival of President Trump to the White House and the emergence of the Republican Party. The meeting was important and it was good that it took place. Ukraine took the initiative for this meeting, where President Zelensky participated in a tripartite meeting with the newly elected American president and the French president. In-depth discussions may have taken place, especially as they were held within the framework of the inauguration ceremonies of Notre-Dame Cathedral. Time may have been limited, but despite all the occupations, this meeting took place. When we talk about a possible change in the policy of the new American administration regarding the war that Russia launched against Ukraine and which continues, it is of course important, as President Zelensky emphasized, that Ukraine has direct channels of communication with the new administration. This has already been done. There have been many promises made by a group of high-ranking officials from the Ukrainian government and the administration of the Ukrainian president who visited the United States in recent weeks. They had official and unofficial meetings and discussed future aspects of cooperation after Trump comes to power. There are constants in the Ukrainian positions.

Ukraine wants the end of the war and a complete, just, and lasting peace. In other words, this means that Ukraine does not want a frozen conflict, does not want to freeze the war, nor pass it on to future generations. We have gone through a series of negotiations and sat with the Russians more than 200 times before the large-scale invasion launched by Russia on February 24, 2022, but all these negotiations and rounds to demand the withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territories did not succeed. We have lived through this bitter experience and there is no more credibility for the Russians who have proven that they do not want to respect their commitments.

If we enter into negotiations with Russia, we want to do so from a position of strength. How can Ukraine achieve this? The Ukrainian army must be strong and have the best and latest Western weapons arriving in Ukraine, but not at the speed and quantity needed. We ask our partners and friends to help us militarily so that we can face the aggression. This does not mean that Ukraine wants to prolong the war, but on the contrary, when we say that there is someone who can stop the war in one day, we also say that there is someone who can stop the war in 24 hours, and that is President Putin. If he gives the order to his army to withdraw, this will mean that the aggressive party is ready to sit at the negotiating table.

But accepting negotiations while our territories are occupied, our people are being killed, and our cities are being bombed, these are not fair conditions to start peace negotiations. All these messages have been conveyed by President Zelensky to the American administration, whose reaction was positive, committing to continue supporting Ukraine and not abandoning it. As for the conditions to be fulfilled to enter into negotiations, they must be discussed and there must be coordination between the allied countries, and of course, Ukraine is a party to this coordination, because the principle that we always announce is that nothing should happen concerning Ukraine without Ukraine, that is, we do not accept that the fate of Ukraine be decided without consulting it. We are a sovereign country and we reject the new colonial policy that Russia imposes on the Ukrainian people. The question today is the existence of Ukraine or its non-existence on the map of Europe and the world. What we are proud of is sovereignty, independence, and national identity, and we will not abandon this, because Ukraine has declared its independence several times throughout history, but each declaration of independence was confronted with wars from neighboring countries that had ambitions over Ukraine and its wealth. Today, we are independent since 1991 and we are very proud of this independence and we will spare no effort to preserve the capabilities and achievements of this country.

3. Kyiv advocates for “Peace through strength.” What is your definition of this concept and how will it materialize on the ground?

We wish for peace to reign in Ukraine as soon as possible, but on the condition that it is complete, just, and lasting, and that this aggression does not recur in the future, whether in Ukraine or in other countries, because if the war passes without Russia being deterred, there is a high risk that these wars will recur elsewhere in the world. The world must not allow Russia to escape responsibility for what it has committed in terms of crimes. What will happen if peace is established? Of course, there are enormous damages suffered by the Ukrainian economy and infrastructure. Energy infrastructure is targeted daily and power plants are bombed by the most powerful missiles and drones, because the goal of the Russian side is not only to cause damage or dismantle the Ukrainian army, but to create unbearable living conditions to force the Ukrainian people to move or surrender, which we reject.

4. What are the next steps when hostilities cease?

The reconstruction of Ukraine will not only rely on international institutions, as it would be unfair to forget all the damage and destruction caused by Russia. Russia, which caused these damages, must assume responsibility and compensate for these damages. The way forward is the confiscation of all Russian assets in the world, and there is a program and intense efforts being made by many countries, and we hope that the circle of these countries will expand. These frozen assets must be used to cover the costs of reconstruction, which can amount to astronomical figures, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, and it is difficult to count the losses while the war continues. Then, there is a very important point, which is the pursuit and legal responsibility of war criminals, whether they are political or military, and all those who played a role in fueling the war and aggression. They must appear before international justice and assume their responsibility for what happened to Ukraine and its peaceful people. These are important steps immediately after the announcement of the end of the war. And of course, the rest will return to the situation in Russia itself, as it is difficult to speculate on what will become of the situation in Russia after the restoration of the territorial unity of Ukraine. This question will return to the decisions of the United Nations. The peace plan proposed by Ukraine is known and we are working to implement it. There is important international support from more than 100 countries for this program, and we invite all countries to join it, because this program is capable of bringing peace closer and making this peace, as we said at the beginning, just and lasting.

5. Russia has just suffered a major setback in Syria, with the fall of its ally Bashar al-Assad. Has Ukraine become involved in this matter?

We are following the latest developments on the international scene and have noticed that Russia has suffered a hard blow in Syria after the fall of the regime of Bashar al-Assad. It is worth noting that Ukraine decided as early as 2015 to break off all its relations with the fallen Syrian regime due to its recognition of Russia’s alleged sovereignty over the Donbass region and its support for Russia’s annexation of the Crimean peninsula. Russia exploited this situation and became deeply involved in Syria, establishing military bases, the legal status of which we do not know, but all we know is what the media report, namely that they were at the request of the Syrian regime, which is a question without a clear answer. Of course, Ukraine has interests, like any other country, in the Arab countries. These are traditional partners of Ukraine, whether during the Soviet era or after independence in 1991. Syria was previously one of the largest trading partners of Ukraine, with a trade volume exceeding one billion US dollars, and Ukrainian goods were re-exported via Syria to the rest of the region, where it was an important link. There were relations between families and students and important human interaction, but the irresponsible and reckless actions of the Assad regime and its policy of submission to the authority of the Russian government and Putin and his geopolitical ambitions led to the fall of this regime, which should have strengthened the pillars of this country and not used its army and resources against its people, whom it oppressed and imprisoned. All the images we saw after the fall of the regime of Bashar al-Assad of the atrocities resemble the Russian regime, because dictatorial regimes resemble and attract each other. We hope that the new phase in Syria will be a phase of stability, freedom, and democracy. One of the encouraging signs is that the administration currently governing Syria aims to reunify the Syrians and rebuild Syria as a developed state. We hope that diplomatic relations with this friendly state will be restored and that there will be cooperation and exchange of embassies and visits. Ukraine has no ambitions in the Arab world or in other countries. We have our own war and our own concerns. The first thing to do is to end the Russian aggression against Ukraine. We do not interfere in the affairs of others nor seek to influence the development of countries that want only the good of Ukraine.

6. Russia’s partners in the Middle East, notably Iran, are weaker than ever. Even China risks a merciless trade war with the return of Donald Trump to the White House. Does Ukraine have a plan to strengthen its positions in this context?

We regret that some countries have chosen to ally with Russia, and this alliance could cast a shadow over the Russian war against Ukraine. We do not say that every country allied with Russia is complicit in the aggression against Ukraine, but supporting the Russian economy and attempting to circumvent the sanctions imposed on Russia could have a negative impact on the situation in Ukraine. We convey these concerns to all countries, including Russia’s allies. Regarding Iran, we have serious problems with them due to their military support for Russia. They continue to supply drones to Russia, which uses them against Ukraine. We have urged the Iranian government to stop this cooperation and cease supplying these weapons, but we have not found an attentive ear in Tehran. For other countries, we remain in contact with them. China is a large country and an influential actor on the international stage. We have contacts, exchanges of visits, political dialogue, and developing and growing economic relations. We hope that China will influence the Russian position and pressure it to stop the war and withdraw Russian forces from Ukrainian territories so that the two parties can begin possible peace negotiations. These countries that have chosen to support Russia must seriously consider the post-war period, what Russia will be, and its economy under many sanctions, and the more severe sanctions that the United States will impose on Russia and Russian society, which is also suffering the consequences of this war. There are statistics that say about 75% of the Russian people support the war against Ukraine. It is difficult to talk about friendship between peoples in the face of the silence of Russian society about what is happening to the Ukrainian people. The change in public opinion in Russia is one of the tools of change that Russia uses against its neighbors, and its interventions do not concern only Ukraine. We have seen the atrocities of the Russian regime on Ukrainian lands and mass murder operations, which indicate that Russia does not want peace and reconciliation, but the surrender of Ukraine, which will not be realized as long as the Ukrainian people remain firm and attached to their principles.

7. The Russian propaganda machine is running at full speed in Africa, yet Moscow has not fulfilled any of the commitments made at the Saint Petersburg Summit in July 2023. What will Kyiv do to convince Africans that the path proposed by Vladimir Putin will not solve any of their problems?

As you know, in our foreign policy strategy, we pay particular attention to the African dimension. This year, we opened 7 new embassies in African countries, mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, an important region. We focus on combating Russian propaganda that reaches Russian, Asian, and African peoples via television and radio channels. It ultimately aims to distort and falsify the facts. What we seek to do is ensure that the correct information reaches observers and even decision-makers. Of course, Russian capabilities are great and the branched media network that Russia has established in Africa is a source of concern for Ukraine. We try, through the newly opened embassies, to have intense media activity and continuous activities so that the diplomats in charge of these embassies convey the truth as it is and offer observers the opportunity to draw information from alternative sources other than the media imposed by the Russians. On the other hand, of course, the diplomatic presence on the African continent will play a positive role in changing the positions of some media and social media influencers. We will provide information emanating from Ukraine, taking into account that Ukraine is the victim in this war and not the aggressor, in addition to organizing some exploratory media visits for a large group of African and Arab journalists who visited Ukraine and toured various parts of the country and learned about the consequences and results of the aggression, especially during the attempts to take the capital, Kyiv. This awareness is very important for us and for them, and through you, we convey an invitation to Tunisian journalists wishing to visit Ukraine to contact the Ukrainian embassies and express their intention to visit Ukraine.

We will organize these visits at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to open the way for them to understand the situation as it is. We also address an invitation to the media not to be drawn into false or misleading propaganda in visits that violate Ukrainian internal laws and international legitimacy, because the Russian side often tries to organize visits for the media to the occupied Ukrainian territories without even informing the media of this destination so that they discover that they were in a place illegally, which is a crime punishable by Ukrainian and international law. We urge them to verify and ensure every invitation they receive to visit the region. We regret that some journalists deliberately go to the occupied areas while knowing that they must coordinate with Ukraine and not with the Russian occupation. This is a warning and fraternal advice to all those who seek to shed light on the war and express their opinion to end the Russian war against Ukraine definitively.

8. Your European partners have announced their big return to Africa in 2025, with mega projects, as part of the “Global Gateway,” a program of 300 billion euros. Will Kyiv join this new dynamic to build win-win partnerships that counter Russian predation?

We have intense dialogue with the European Union and European institutions, especially those seeking to engage in joint projects with the African continent. There is coordination at multiple levels, and in my role as Ukraine’s special envoy for the Middle East and Africa, I am in contact with my counterparts in various European countries. We are holding intense and continuous meetings on the possibility of inviting Ukraine to join these projects and implement them in Africa, taking into account the opportunities and capabilities available to Ukrainian institutions and companies, especially in the fields of agriculture, industry, energy, transportation, information technology, and digitization. Ukraine can help and support these programs, especially when we talk about programs launched by countries like those of the European Union. We are looking for the mechanism of integration into this system, engagement in the implementation of practical projects on the African continent. Of course, through our contacts with African countries, we know their concerns, demands, and development projects, and we try to meet them through our embassies abroad and the new embassies in Africa. We tell our African friends that it is imperative for Ukraine to launch its exchanges and reduce the volume of Ukrainian exports of raw materials and create various partnerships on the African continent and produce materials and goods with added value. This is important so that these products are manufactured in Africa, which will facilitate for us and the countries with which we cooperate to re-export to African countries. This is an orientation that we have adopted and we are working hard to have joint production of goods and services, and this is what we think is necessary to focus on during this period.

9. What message do you want to convey to the Tunisians?

I wish to convey my personal greetings and those of the Ukrainian people to the friendly Tunisian people. Personally, I was enthusiastic about this visit, as there had been an interruption of high-level visits between the two countries. We are here to convey a message of peace and fraternity between the two peoples. We want all those who were forced to leave Ukraine because of the war to be able to return and resume their work, and for their life in Ukraine to be safe. We welcome all Tunisian guests in Ukraine and are determined to strengthen the relations between the two countries. I am happy that there is interest in Tunisia for the Ukrainian issue, which is encouraging. I say with all sincerity that we wish for stability and security for friendly Tunisia in Ukraine. Tunisia is not foreign to Ukrainian society, as thousands of them have visited Tunisia for tourism or treatment, and we had direct flights between Ukrainian and Tunisian cities. Tunisia is close to the hearts of Ukrainians, and the relations between the two countries have a solid foundation. We must simply develop these relations, and I am optimistic about the future of relations between our two countries. I thank Tunisia for the authentic Arab Tunisian hospitality that I have felt since my arrival on the blessed land of Tunisia.

 

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